00:00:02

I saw Dr. David Almeida speak at a conference, uh, that JMI equity held for its portfolios companies. And when I saw it, it blew me away. Uh, Dr. David Almeida is the chief people officer at Kronos, which is founded in the year in 1977. He described a five plus year journey of a board level mandate to make Kronos one of the best places to work, which resulted in completely changing how managers were measured across the entire company. I loved his systematic approach, and that is both grounded in academic research, but it also takes into account all of the complications of changing a culture and what values are rewarded by the organization. I asked Dr. Almeida to tell us a story, teach us why employee engagement is so important and why it warranted the continuous focus of their board of directors and how it's impacted the lives of teams across the company and their leaders without further ado, Dr. Dave Almeida.

00:01:03

Alright. Alright. Well, thank you, gene graduations on creating such a great sense of community within, uh, this conference. You don't get to a lot of conferences. A lot of times it's just people talking from the stage and there's no real interchange. So I'm going to, I have 30 minutes. I'm going to, uh, be as candid as I can about our experience in the area I'm going to speak about. Uh, but I'm also at the very end going, gonna put up my email address. So if anybody is interested in having a further conversation about this, I'm happy to do it. Um, so, uh, where are we? Okay, so let's talk about Kronos. Um, uh, so, so Kronos, just for context for no other reason is a global organization, uh, roughly 6,000 employees in roughly, um, 27 countries. We do a little short of $1.5 billion in revenue.

00:01:52

Majority of that revenue is recurring revenue, um, software. You can see what we focus on from a software perspective. Um, and lots of customers. One of my favorite things about the company is we're just so diversified, not only from a customer count perspective, but also from industry perspective across multiple industries. And we have customers today in roughly 105, um, countries and millions of people touch our products every day. But today's conversation really is about manager effectiveness. Um, so this is a journey my team started on in 2016, and the intent of this journey was actually pretty straightforward. We believed, uh, that there was a lot of power in ensuring and finding a scalable solution to make sure that every employee at Kronos had a great manager experience every day to the, to the extent that we could do that. Now, a lot of these, um, uh, talks I have, if you're a big company, sometimes you think this isn't scalable. I could tell you that's not true. This will scale across we believe any size organization. And if you're a small company, you might think it's too hard to implement. I think true either. I think this is fairly, um, if you do it correctly, uh, uh, something that you can implement at any size organization. Okay. All right. Make sure these work.

00:03:14

Okay. So I call this slide, the kind of, why should we listen to you? Slide when Compuware was out here earlier, they talked about employee engagement as one of their key metrics. Uh, we feel the same way. The only thing I'd add to that as a caveat is employee engagement on the surface isn't necessarily key metric. It matters how you measure it. So there's all kinds of different tools out there to measure employee engagement. They're not all created equal. There's a, there's a rigor, uh, to some tools and the processes behind them, the differentiate, some, some of those from others. Um, but you'd have to be, you know, living in a cave, not to understand the power of things like glass door today. Um, and whether you're hiring employees or looking for a job yourself, especially in this type of, uh, audience and field 90, 95% of the folks that come to work for us, for example, look at glass door. It does matter. You can see the metrics here. I'm not going to drain this slide. 36% of the people that come to work for us come directly to us from a, uh, best place to work site, whether that's glass door, whether that's fortune, no matter where it is, they just like, they're looking for a good restaurant. They go to the highest rated organizations and they work their way backwards. When we talk about today is how manager effectiveness helps in this area.

00:04:29

Okay. Just again, a little more context. So as a company, we believe that great business businesses are powered by, uh, uh, great people, but we also believe kind of, uh, related to that, that great people deserve great managers. The work inspired tagline you see here is our employment brand. It's an internal kind of aspiration, uh, and it's an external facing brand. So folks have a sense what it's like to work for us and then trust and high-performance are the two biggest, uh, kind of foundational pieces of our, uh, culture, which does play into this whole idea of manager effectiveness. And I'll get to that. So not a huge surprise based on what I've said so far. Uh, we spend a lot of time working, uh, and studying and optimizing the relationship between managers and their employees. You know, I think almost every organization believes that having that solid relationship is key for lots of reasons I'll talk about, but you know, some of them are retention, performance engagement, right.

00:05:28

But how many organizations really have a process that they've institutionalized to ensure that happens? How many, how many organizations really hold managers accountable, um, at a, at a kind of on a regular basis in our case by annually, to make sure they're doing what they should be doing as managers every day I would, I would argue not a whole lot. Okay. So hypothesis, we talked about this. Jean talked about this earlier, so it's pretty simple hypothesis in our, we believe that managers influence engagement, retention, and performance through the work we've done over the last few years. I can tell you I'm more than believe that I know that it's true factually true. And we'll talk about how I know that in a second here, but, you know, that's kind of the easy thing to figure out that hypothesis. The harder thing

00:06:18

Is to figure out the, how, so if you believe on the surface that managers have this huge impact on your organization, how do you get to a place where you have a process that you can rely on that, you know, is the correct one that, you know, you're measuring managers, for example, on things that are going to have the right impact on both employees in the organization. So some of the questions we asked ourselves for here, you know, what, what employees, what your employees care most about what managers behaviors matter the most and what does great management at Kronos specifically look like A little bit of a lag. Sorry about that.

00:07:04

There we go. Okay. So this model is one, we use a lot, so this is essentially how we go after almost everything. So, uh, I run a team, uh, at, uh, Kronos, a few teams, but, uh, one of them that, that, uh, is focused on this area uses this model to go after in determined exactly how they're gonna, uh, you know, tackle things in a robust, rigorous, hopefully kind of academically founded area or way. Um, and so if you look at this particular, uh, problem we had here with manager effectiveness, where we started from a defined standpoint was freaking out how did great managers at Kronos lead every day? And what does that even mean? I mean, great managers sounds like a great term. Of course we want great managers, but, you know, uh, as I said earlier about engagement, great can mean a lot of things, right?

00:07:51

There's a lot of organizations that have really high engagement that aren't effective. They're not going after performance. They aren't, they aren't making their deadlines. They have employees that are happy, but maybe not productive, or maybe they're, um, you know, uh, in an org, in a group, that's got a culture that's different than others. We tried to get through all that by analyzing a ton of data at Kronos that we had access to. So just some examples, performance reviews, uh, talent reviews. We have a thing called, um, uh, calibration. We do every year with managers across all organizations. So we can get a, a real kind of objective as possible view of all of our managers. We have a thing, we call it courage to lead awards. We looked at those nominations and what we did through this whole process that used those data points in many more hours is we identified our highest and lowest scoring managers.

00:08:40

You might say, what do we care about our lowest scoring managers? Well, what we did very simply is we over laid the highest on the lowest. We sat down and focus groups and we said, okay, let's figure out every day how these managers that are highly rated are showing up and what they're doing at the level. So we cared about what high high-performing managers were doing, kind of subtracted what low managers were also doing. That was the same. And the residual of that right. Is what you want it to measure what you wanted to go after. We also did a lot of, uh, external benchmarking, Google, uh, did some work, uh, that's, that's, uh, close to related to this, um, a, um, a body of work called project oxygen. So if you want to look at that, it's actually a really good body of work.

00:09:24

We've met with them and vice versa a few times. So we're kind of working together trying to try to grow in this area. Um, Facebook also, um, did something similar to this and then Deloitte, we use for different reasons. From a benchmarking standpoint, we use Deloitte, um, specifically, um, because of the way they ask questions in their performance review process, they asked very stark, candid, clear questions, and that was critical in this. So once we got to that point, um, the question became once we knew the behaviors, how do we measure them? So what we really, what we did is I think simple but super effective, and it has had a major impact in our organization. We essentially flipped the performance appraisal on its head. So twice a year, our employees rate their managers. Now they rate them in 18 specific areas. We use the third-party academic institution to validate that those, uh, areas actually matter.

00:10:23

So they're, they're tied to, are correlated to things like our retention, like engagement, like performance. And so we know, uh, at some point, as we've kind of worked through this over the last three years, that the questions that we're asking our questions that matter, every manager gets a report twice a year, and I'll show you that in a second, but it says, here's how I'm doing. Here's what I'm doing versus my peers. Here's how I'm doing all these different areas. And it gives them something to work on that manager now has to sit down with his team individually or collectively. It usually happens individually twice a year and say to them, here's what I'm going to do. Here's how I'm going to get better. Here's me. Here's the good to meet. Here's the areas I need to work on, but I'm going to commit to you that I'm going to do that.

00:11:09

And I'm going to report back to you on the next, um, survey and why that's important for a lot of managers, as we first rolled this out is it's a huge paradigm shift, right? So you have managers that are in this kind of, you know, old school that think being a manager is just telling people what to do. And what I say is what is right, and what goes this, flip this around. So hugely impactful for us. And it's twice a year. So if you, uh, you know, look, I've been doing this HR thing for a long time, right? So you guys have all had employees that there's a problem. Employees. If someone gets involved, they do some kind of a coaching thing, right. And then six months later, the person's back to their old behaviors, right? They're just, it's kind of like muscle memory.

00:11:51

This doesn't allow for that. There's like a spotlight that's basically just follows them around. And so what's happened as a result of this measurement. I'll go to that in a second. When I show you some of the data, but I can tell you that some people that were managers just aren't managers anymore, not because they're bad people, it's because the skills they need to manage an organization that we've identified here really clearly, they just don't have other organizations we've made smaller. If you have 20 people for a span of control, it's probably a few too many, right? I mean, you probably, you can't, you can't really manage that other organisms. The other folks have left, not a lot, but some, you know, some have said, look, you know, whatever I've been doing, I've been managing for 20 years. I don't need this to tell me how to manage, you know, to which we say, okay, you can manage the way you'd like to.

00:12:40

You just can't do that here. Right. So, I mean, that's not meant to be sarcastic or anything else. It's just, we, we believe that this is so critical from an engagement performance and everything else perspective and what my favorite kind of managers, which is 95% of them say, this is awesome. Like you just gave me shorthand on how to be a great manager and how to get better. Like, thank you. Like I don't, I don't have to read that book or this book or that other book I go to that seminar or whatever. You're not that these conferences aren't useful, but you know, this, this is, this is just great. Like I know exactly where to focus. And I'll tell you a story about that later, where you had some very senior managers, this was a huge aha moment for which is the best thing I did enable.

00:13:24

So think about this, right? So when we first did this, when we first measured, um, manager effectiveness, we shared that report with the manager. We didn't share it with the manager's manager. Why? Because that meant to be a gut shot. It's meant to be, here you go. Here's some, here's where you stand today. And if you want to get better, um, here's the way to do that. And we have, you know, kind of set up beforehand, uh, coaching for both internal folks and external folks perform that we had training both virtual and classroom led. And we also put in a program to reinforce this. Um, I'm sure in most of your organizations, you have a, a sales incentive program or something like that, where your top salespeople all go to this super exclusive expensive trip somewhere. Right? Well, we did the same thing, but we do that for the top 25 managers in the organization, bring them into Boston. Every year we have the whole executive committee there. We bring their spouses and the significant others, and we treat them like goals because we know they're the lifeblood of the organization. It's that important to us.

00:14:29

Okay. So let's cut into a little bit of some of the results and what we found now. Uh, so, uh, Jean mentioned that he met me at, at, uh JMI. So Jamie is one of our we're private equity owned. So JMI is one of our private equity owners. And you know, what, what they love is they love this. They love the whole idea of MEI. They love the whole idea of putting this across every, just take an, our questions and, you know, and that's true for a lot of other, by other PE firms. They have the same reaction. My counsel to them is, um, you know, it's not the same for everywhere. Now. Some of these broad categories probably work, but, but I would encourage people to do the work, like look at the data. See, what's see what's unique for your organization because you're going to be reinforcing this in a way that's going to be super powerful.

00:15:19

And if you're reinforcing the wrong stuff, you could easily get the wrong outcome. But in our case here is that we found great managers for us communicate. So what does that mean? They share information, ongoing feedback, right? On a regular basis. They tie the people's work to the overall strategy performance goals that they, one of the, one of the very basic things that is hugely correlated is they take the time to share the results of the survey does kind of MEI thing twice a year. But you want to tell me who who's a bad manager. If you don't even take the time to share the results of your MEI, then you're probably not bought him. So that's a, that's a huge red flag for us doesn't happen hardly ever. But, um, but communicates means more than just says hi, there are specific things that people do.

00:16:01

There were managers with the organizations that just never had. One-on-ones never had staff meetings, never shared goals, except maybe once a year from a review standpoint. Um, so we gave them insight into how that was hurting them. And I'll show you that later, okay. Empowers and enables. So this has to do with decision-making and risk taking. So like any other technology company, you know, there's a there's innovation that you need to have on an ongoing basis. And if you have a manager that's micromanaging you and not allowing you to do anything besides what they exactly want you to do, not allowing you to take risks, it's going to hurt the organization. So this was a major one, uh, for, for us, at least develops and encourages. This is career conversations, looking for ways for people to understanding what that individual wants to do in their career and looking for ways for them to move forward with their career hugely important.

00:16:52

And that supports the whole person. And this one is the one that gets most managers are a lot of them. So when we first rolled this out, I'll show you the results later. But it was a large net. Every person in the organization was assessed my boss, who's the CEO, the whole executive team, everybody. And so they all got a report. And then we talked and I don't like this vernacular, but you know, the bottom 20%, which isn't a term we use, but it's kind of how we looked at it. And you'll see why in a second pretty intensive one-on-one coaching. But there was a executive committee member that was in the bottom 20%. Like, you don't know what you're gonna catch. You throw a huge net out and you've got one of those. So I took that one on as, as a coaching, uh, that I'm happy to say they're not in the bottom 20% anymore, but you know, there was, it was, it was insightful for that person super, uh, experienced and successful and all of that, but just had a blind spot.

00:17:44

And this was their blind spot. Their blind spot was essentially, they didn't, they didn't, they didn't treat people like people, they treated them like they were numbers or employees. They didn't share anything about themselves. They didn't really know what was going on in the people's lives. How do you get work-life balance when you don't even know what's going on in life? Right. So, you know, um, yeah, it's a, it's a hugely compliant organization that I work for. So if you ask someone to do it and you don't have that understanding of what that means, what's the impact is going to be, they're going to do it, but they also could be disengaged. So this one was a hard thing to learn for a lot of our managers, especially senior managers, actually. So there's, there's one thing to understand the behaviors, but you have to get it down to the question level.

00:18:27

So we asked 18 questions. We had 18 questions that I mentioned before that we've, uh, we use a third-party academic institution because we don't, we don't look at the, it is truly confidential, our surveys. So we feed them data from our systems. And then, uh, our engagement survey company feeds them individual data and they marry them up. So that's, and then we do the work to figure out if these cysts, these questions are actually having the impact that we want. Some examples of questions. Uh, does my manager share information from their leadership parent, me to make decisions, opportunities to develop and care about me. Okay. Pretty straightforward in our surveys. It actually, it, um, mentions the manager by name. So it'll say, does my manager, Dave Almeida do this? So there's no confusion about who it is. Like I didn't, it didn't mean me. There's two reasons for that.

00:19:19

One is clarity for the employee too. So the manager can say, I don't think they were talking about, not me. It wasn't me. It was you or something. I don't know, whatever. So clarity is important. Okay. So this is kind of what they get at a high level. The blurred out thing in the background is actually what they get the high level. Just the front part just shows you, um, kind of how we look at it from a core tile standpoint. So they get an overall MEI score and I'll show you that second, second graphically. And then they get ranked by Cortel against their peers, not against some external third party against everybody else in the organization. And it shows them, uh, basically what to work on. So in this case, this manager would probably pick for sure empowerment and maybe a couple others to work on.

00:20:03

Generally, it's three things, or so you really can't, it's six months. You gotta make some progress, but it tells them exactly where to look. And then as I said, we have, we have a developmental focus behind that. It will help them do whatever they need. Like we see the commitment, we're going to do whatever we can to make them better. This isn't, this isn't a tool that we put in place to, to get rid of managers. It was a tool we put in place to help managers be better managers. And so far that's actually happened. And I'll talk about that in a second.

00:20:33

So, uh, this is kind of our engagement journey. We talked about engagement earlier. Um, so in 2010, we were kind of a little below, actually it industry average with our results. You can see that here. And then we did a lot of work, uh, in a lot of different areas. Um, and we're able to push those, uh, scores up to roughly 84%, but we kind of plateaued. Now we have plateaued at the top 5% of the engagement, but still we plateaued. Like if you're not moving ahead in my world, you're moving behind. Right? You got to figure out how to continue to make us a better and better and a better place to work. And so we're a little frustrated by this, honestly, until MEI came along. And so this is the results from the first 12 months after we put MEI in. And that was in, um, July of 2016, interesting data here.

00:21:26

I I'm a data guy, so I love, I get a little geeky about this stuff. You're going to see the graph in a second. And when I first saw this graph, it was just, I was like one of the best days, not better than like wedding or like, don't tell my wife, but it was a really good day. This is a cool graph. And you'll see. But 50% engagement variance explained by MEI. What does that mean? It means that if you look at our top scoring managers and our lower scoring managers, 50% of that variance can be explained by their score, how they did on MEI. Whoa. Now, if you kind of take away a step back from the data for a second and say, logically, does that make sense? Well, sure. For yourselves, at least 50% of your work experience is impacted by your manager, right?

00:22:09

You manage to having a bad day, you walk in there kind of, you know, irritated. You're like irritated at me. I, the irritating that I do something like your whole day, you're thinking did I do today? What, you know, like what's going on. And if they're positive in the end, it make it a great work environment. You have the opposite impact. So not a surprise, but still super powerful. So we saw a 6% increase at MEI scores. I'll show you that between the first, uh, survey and the second we saw a 3% increase in engagement scores, uh, which that, so the 84 and I went to 87, it's actually 89 as we sit and talk today, retention, which is a validated number for us. So we actually asked one question, which we validated this that says, basically I do plan to be here for in the next 12 months. And if they say, no, they are leaving on average at a rate that's eight times what people say yes to. So we've been able to go back and validate these things. And as you would expect, we saw a decrease in voluntary turnover and our turnover, um, in the U S for high-performance is like 4%. So for it to drop is meaningful.

00:23:11

Okay. So let me tell you a real story. So this is a real picture of an engineering. Uh vice-president I took her name off to protect the not innocent. Um, she's, she's awesome manager been recognized, uh, internal and externally for years. And I think that's kind of the point is that she's such an awesome manager. So 20 years she runs a thousand person plus employee organization. She has always taken all of this, uh, leadership stuff super seriously. Her first MEI score is 88%. And you'll see where that fell in a second. But, you know, for her type a, you know, all of that, ADA was like a B right, maybe a B plus, which is how I feel about it too honestly. Um, but you know, she didn't know what she's being measured on, so not, not too bad. So she dug in and not only did you dig in for herself, but she dug in to make sure her whole organization was taking this seriously.

00:24:04

Now the CEO, our CEO was hugely behind this. There was never really any doubt about whether it's going to be taken seriously, but still to put that in action was, was really impressive for her. She found two areas that she just had a blind spot about career goals. She had all these VPs reporting to her. She figured that their VPs they're all set. They know what they're going to do. They have a plan they really did. And some of them wanted to leave in three years and go start their own business. So I want her to move into another part of the organization. She never asked the question, they were afraid to bring it up. It was a blind spot and that empowerment, I mean, if she was here, she would say the same thing. She's a little bit of a micromanager. Um, I know engineering micromanaged.

00:24:44

It's a weird combination, but it happens. Um, no, she was a great manager, but she just, you know, uh, you know, had her vision and allowed a little bit of flexibility, but people felt like they just didn't have enough latitude to put their own stamp on things. And she knew she had to back off now the second time around for her. Um, I don't think this is on the slide, but she increased her score a couple of percent the first time. And now she's, I don't know, 93, 90 4% so solidly in the, in the first core tile. I should probably say this here. MEI is not a perfect thing, obviously. So what does that mean? It means your MEI score doesn't, uh, it doesn't precisely say here's, especially in one survey here is how good a manager you are so higher MEI. You're a great manager, lower MEI.

00:25:35

You need a lot of work. Not always like you can take, you can take a really good manager and put them into a group that needs a ton of work. That's been kind of mismanaged for a couple periods, you know, could be a year. It could be a year and a half. We kind of think about it as, as three cycles. Your MEI score could drop and probably will, you know, um, that's okay. You know, the goal here isn't to necessarily get your I'm MEI score up. Your goal is to manage the organization in a way we know is effective. And sometimes that means your score goes up. Sometimes it means it goes down over time. You're going to have a higher average score for sure.

00:26:13

Okay. Couple of quick things. I want to show you some graphs at the end here, so, okay. Four minutes. All right. So communication strategy must be non-threatening right. So we never once said to managers, this was a gotcha. In fact, just the opposite. Like, look, we've done a lot of work on development. This is just another way of looking at that. I'm open and honest about what we're doing, worked with a lot of levels of the organization to make sure they, they understood it before we rolled it out. So never was done in a, in a threatening way. Now we have, um, a really high trust culture. Um, you know, if you look at the fortunate results, the kind of level of trust is like 98% with an organization. So I don't take that for granted though. We do whatever we can not to violate that super important, but how you communicate, this is really critical.

00:26:58

And then, um, need to get folks on board early. So, uh, not only the kind of C level, but just all levels to make sure they understand what you're doing, how rigorous the process is, how you're, how are you going about it? How are you gonna communicate it? Why it matters and have them embrace it, right? So you don't have to convince people. We had very little pushback on this. I actually expected, especially for some of the folks that weren't rated high, that we'd get like, look, let's all dive into the data and make sure that's okay. Well, it is, but that's not where they went. They just kind of embraced this and said, okay, thank you. Most of them, um, I'm going to work on this summer board just shocked. And we had, so when we rolled out the first time, um, 20% of the organization, you know, as I mentioned, fell into this bottom, Cortel now I knew who these people were.

00:27:46

Uh, so I'm walking around the halls going yep. 20 bottom, 20% not going to, I hated that, you know, but I didn't do this. We told them, we're not telling anybody, not their boss, not the CEO. And I never shared these results with my boss because it's not, not fair. Right. It's not what we're doing. It's not what we are trying to send the message we were trying to send. So, and the last one evidence-based right. So what I've seen and I'll talk about this and it probably should have talked about it, this on glass doors. A lot of times people just are trying to check the box on this stuff and don't take the time to do it in an evidence-based way, in a way that's rigorous than all of that. Because at the end, what are you really doing? You could be, you know, you could be missed steering the organization in a major way that could have a negative impact on a ton of different areas.

00:28:28

So super important that it's evident. Evidence-based okay, I'm going to do this. This is, let me just quickly. So I get to the last couple of slides. So basically what, I'm, what, I'm the point I'm trying to make here is it's, it's part of a continuum it's kind of in the middle, right? It's not like you can just kind of take this and plop it in there's other things you need to do. First, also we've hardwired now that we know, and we have validated some of those characters characteristics, for example, our inner recruiting process there. And obviously our development process, we put in a rewards program. So it all kind of flows together once you can validate this. Um, but I think that's pretty self-explanatory okay. So this is a little inside baseball. I mean really inside baseball. Like I haven't shared this within Kronos, sorry for the reference.

00:29:08

Uh, this is stuff we don't tell a lot of people, sorry. Uh, I know I shouldn't use sports analogies. So, um, so this, this problem we're trying to solve next is kind of this, alright, so this is, this is the one that geeked out about it was literally on a flight when I got this data and, and, um, it was just, uh, it was pretty cool. And I'm going to try to explain what you're seeing here. So if you look at the results there, so the dark blue, where's the R the July 16th results. The July 19, our most recent results are kind of, you know, that's, it's the dark blue is overlaying kind of the lighter blue there, but the most important part about this slide is you look at kind of the first core tile, for example, um, MEI. Uh, so that's your MEI average MEI score for that core tile?

00:29:51

There's 173 managers in there. Average MEI is 99%, which is kind of a problem. I'll talk about that engagement. A hundred percent, a hundred percent retention, which I told you before I mentioned was a validated number, a hundred percent now swing all the way to the other side. Fourth, Cortel your average MEI is 74% engagement way down at 74% and then retention at 64%. So we have increased it. That's great. You can see the deltas there and kind of, paranthetically how we've increased it over time. But if you're in the first core tile, my guess is you're not going. I have a lot to work on. You kind of have an a right, like you really need, even if it's an a minus, you're really going to kill yourself to get the a or A-plus probably not the way this is derived as a top two boxes are what we do.

00:30:39

The surveys. If a five point scale four and five is get you your top box score. What would happen if we just made that five? So you have to get the highest rating, like strongly agree in every single one of these 18 questions. What would that look like? It looks like this. Like there's people that got no fives, there's people that just got fours and fives or all fours. So it kind of the same when you did fours and fives. Now it's just fives. Some people went from the first core tile all the way down to the fourth court tile, only three people in the first and the whole company got a perfect score. Three, three, that's it. Now we're not going to do this because people would freak, right? I mean, it's a little radical, but what if I took an average? What if I said, okay, let's, let's use an average of your, of your score.

00:31:20

So, you know, it's four point whatever. And so you can, there's mathematical ways you can get to this, but the point is, you're not as good as you think you are potentially not for the three people that got all hundreds, like good for them. You know what I do? You're still awesome. But there's a lot of people that have a lot to work on still. Um, and so this is probably what we're going to work on next. There's a lot of ways we can go after this, but I think, um, uh, it's going to compel people to try to get even better and with, okay. Like I said before, there's my email address. Any questions, please reach out. We talk about this a lot with organizations, happy to share. This is not, you know, proprietary in our view. We'll share the, we'll share the, um, math, not the, not the, not the outcome, just to show you how we get to this stuff, if anybody's interested. Okay. All right. Thank you.